Its a dangerous life that he is in right now, in more ways then one, and I am afraid that I am going to lose him.
my eyes fill with tears once again for you lucy. i can understand how painfully difficult this must be for you, as it is your own son that you watch wasting away before your eyes. i don't like using the words, 'wasting away' but we are not exactly about ettiquette here, in regards to these matters, and what you are seeing is exactly that, a wasting away of a young mans life, your own sons life at that.
but lucy, it is mostly just time out of your sons life that is being wasted away, forever. not your son, himself. i can't believe for one second, that this is how mark will spend the rest of his days, nor will i accept that his life will be made any shorter on this planet as a result of what he is doing at this moment.
i know it is hard for you to see that any progress has been made by all your efforts to help your son. yes, he does look tired, his clothes wont fit because he's lost wait, because he is not likely eating right, or at all. maby that light in his eyes no longer shines and a smile is absent from his face but he is still alive, if only as alive as a crack addict needs to be. he does not need any more life in him than what is required by him to get through his days. i am sure that he gets what his body needs to keep him going.
he is not alone out there and crackheads have a way of looking after one another and they will, because they rely on each other for safety in numbers. they will share food as they find it, or steal it as is usually the case. sweets mostly. he is not likely to be ripped off by someone if he is hanging in a group. it is usually an outsider from another area who will come to a place where he is not known, rob someone and then quickly leave the area. usually the person robbed will be targeted because they are alone. i don't think you need to worry so much for his safety, tho i know you still will.
as an addict myself, i can assure you that mark will have learned the ropes very quickly as to how to survive the streets. i slept many a night downtown in my van even tho i had my place here. i can't remenber what i ate for the several months i was smoking, but most of it was junk food, sweets, stolen by my young woman friend or if we really wanted to live high on the hog, we'd go to my place where there was always a stockpile of breads, peanut butter and jam.
i lost weight, none the less. i can remember when my pants no longer stayed up on their own and i started wearing a belt. i still haven't put all the weight back on. but the whole time i was out there, lucy, i never once feared for my life. i think mostly i felt that way because i knew that i had had another life. one that was so different from that which i had been living on the street.
yes there were moments when i thought i might be there on the street for the rest of my days, but always, i had memories of this other life which included a nice warm clean bed, hot water, roof over my head, children, family and friends. i never lost hope, that someday i would just have enough of this crack life and would rather return to what i held as memories.
mark knows that you are there and that you love him. don't think there isn't a day goes by that he doesn't think of you and misses you. he knows he is not the person he once was and likely despises himself for not having the strength and courage to just walk away and return home. but you can bet that every day looks just the same, day in day out, without promise of change to him and that inside his heart he becomes more and more sickened by what he is doing to himself and to his family. i bet he walks around just waiting for that moment to arrive when this just all ends and he is free.
i won't kid you and say that i didn't wish death wouldn't just come along and take me, because i did think that way. i was so humiliated by what i'd allowed myself to become that i thought that death would relieve me of my pain and hopelessness. but i don't know of a crack addict yet that would take his life, for fear of missing that next toke. you are of no use to the crack demon if you are dead. if you fear that mark may get sick while out there and need to be hospitalized, i believe you know that could be a blessing in disguize.
none of us want to die. we may think we do sometimes because we feel there is absolutely no way out of this maddening, circle of destruction. in my opinion, lucy, knowing that a crack addict would not take his life with the consequence being that they'd miss the next toke, then the only other option for him is to make that run for freedom when the opportunity presents itself. and it will. don't ever think he's forgotten what freedom is all about.
lucy, i'm sorry if you find what i've said to be harsh and lacking sensitivity to what you are feeling, but i know you read these words knowing they are straight up from the heart of an addict. i know how it is, that you can feel you are not handling this situation properly, but you have to know that this drug is so powerful, that nothing can ever come between it and the user until the user himself is ready to give it up.
my heart goes out to you and your husband and the rest of marks family. know that i share in all your grief and look forward to mark returning home to the family that loves and misses him.
love, bill
_________________ I can embrace myself, hold my own hand, love me - but, I can't gaze into my own eyes and feel my own soul lift me up.
I continue to doubt the way we are handling things is the right way.
Is he handling this the right way?
Maybe not to you but,
I believe I know where his mind frame is....that was me.
Just the fact he hasn't gone to any lengths
to make it appear that he wants help, tells me a lot.
Now you know, any help he took was because of or for you.
He doesn't care too much about living out of his car right now...
He's free to get blown and not have to deal with
the after math that came along with it, when he was at home.
His car, believe it or not, is his castle right now.
All he wants to do is to get high
and not have to hear sh!t about it...that's all.
If it's eating away at you that bad...let him come home.
Don't let him have a free ride or a reduced one either...
and as long as he's taking care of what he needs to,
stay off his back about his drug use, then, take it from there.
I told you early on...
not to make it hard for him to get high,
and not to lay out consequences you couldn't follow through on,
Peace,
Lynn
_________________ If you can not stand for something, you will fall for everything
Dear Lucy,
I agree with Lynn,if as a mother you cant stand the fact hes living in his car,let him come home at lease you will be able to know a little bit of what hes doing.I also agree if he comes home to back off on his drug use,you know unless he wants to change it he will continue to use.If he comes home set some ground rules.Things such as looking for work and taking care of his own bills.I dont believe you should set a curfue for him or lock him out if hes not in on a certin time he is a growen man.Letting him come home might ease the worry on your mind a bit.
Hugs diane
I have not been here much, but most recently have tried to keep up with your post regarding Mark and I whole heartedly feel for you.
The first thing that I would like to state is that I don't have the answers as to what is right, or wrong... what will work, or what absolutely will not work.
All I have at this point is an opinion that truly does not offer you an answer, but that may give you some food for thought.
After reading Diane's and Lynn's post I thought about how difficult of a decision as well as how difficult of a feat that it may be to allow mark to come home under such conditions.
Consider asking yourself this question assuming that you are still not going to give him a free, or reduced ride.
Do you believe that Mark can meet his criteria while in active addiction ?
As Mark's Mom, I know that you will do what you feel is in his best interest, to the best of your knowledge and with the best intentions.
Know one really knows what it will take to make Mark come to terms with his own addiction and the want to seek help for himself.... You know through trial and error of your experience already that you can not carry him to that place that you want him to be, thus you DO need to consider YOU, in this equation. To follow your heart may, forsake what your mind already knows..... just a thought.
I can certainly understand how letting him return home may relieve a substantial amount of your worry for part of the time, but it will still be there for all the times that he is not home as expected, or there to sit for a meal that you prepared and planned with his knowing.
As hard as it may be to accept, he is an adult and with that comes responsibilities ... to himself as well as others... no one else can take this role from him ...
I do agree that you should keep the door of communication open and the invitations forthcoming for Mark to spend time with you and your husband.
Know that I am thinking of you, and keeping you and Mark in my prayers.
Strength and Peace
and Love Always,
Michelle
_________________ Positives create better results then Negatives
I can certainly understand how letting him return home may relieve a substantial amount of your worry for part of the time, but it will still be there for all the times that he is not home as expected, or there to sit for a meal that you prepared and planned with his knowing.
As hard as it may be to accept, he is an adult and with that comes responsibilities ... to himself as well as others... no one else can take this role from him ...
I do agree that you should keep the door of communication open and the invitations forthcoming for Mark to spend time with you and your husband.
Lucy,
I have to say that I agree with what Michelle has written here. If he is not where you expect him to be when you expect him to be there...the feeling of dread and worry will return, even if you both have been working hard to rebuild trust.
A grown man does not feel nor should he necessarily have to account for his whereabouts every moment...but that is what makes us feel safe isn't it? Knowing. That is what gives us our sense of control....Why should they not be open about it?... and just tell us....save everyone the grief? Trust is difficult to rebuild when our physical and psychological memory rears up every time something that for anyone else, ...except our addicted loved ones...would seem normal, reasonable behavior for an independent adult. It is a struggle for them and for us. It is hard to find the balance, that allows for growth.
No matter what, I feel it is important to keep reaching out as you have been. You will know what is right for you and your family when you decide to do something. This is the delicate balancing act...following your heart with your head as a guide.
Hello everyone.
Thanks for all your input here, and know that it is all considered and churned and churned in my brain.
I don't know the answers. I don't know where we are going.
I do know that Mark has not gotten a job yet. He has a few bucks from a side job that he gave me the money to hold and I've been giving to him as needed for gas, etc.
I know he's not used in about 5 days.
He was around some this weekend, eating a lot, in a pretty good mood. He was around yesterday afternoon helping my husband do some things around the house. And I know he spent the night at his g/f's last night.
Everytime I see him I just tell him how great it is to see him, how much we miss him, what a great help he is, etc. Not dwelling on the drug use, but instead just enjoying the time he chooses to share with us.
As the 15th of the month grows closer and the fact that he isn't working, he will most likely not have the money to cover car insurance, and that will be a big blow to him to lose his car.
It is all a struggle for sure.
I am working diligently to keep my spirits up, to not obsess about his use, to spend my time doing things I enjoy. I am finding that taking care of myself is a lot harder then I thought it would be, I guess I haven't done it for a while.
Hubby and I shared our 24th anniversary yesterday, and its incredible we've been together so long. Mark was sure to text msg me a little after 12 on Sunday night so he could be the 1st to wish us a happy anniversary, and that is a sign of my old Mark.
Know what the biggest, underlying factors are here?
Responsibility and accountability
Now, it seems that Michelle and Jenni
are looking at these two factors from a different angle then I.
pause4poetry wrote:
Consider asking yourself this question assuming that you are still not going to give him a free, or reduced ride.
Do you believe that Mark can meet his criteria while in active addiction ?
As hard as it may be to accept, he is an adult and with that comes responsibilities ... to himself as well as others... no one else can take this role from him ...
He is a young adult...a babe in the woods,
he is still a *child* by all accounts, Darell is an adult.
Consider asking yourself this Michelle...
Do you believe Mark was ever given any criteria to meet?
Your right Michelle, as true as that may be,
no one else can take the role of responsibility from him
but, let's keep in mind, he was just recently given the role
....Like, within the last MONTH
pause4poetry wrote:
To follow your heart may, forsake what your mind already knows..... just a thought.
Just a thought..or just from experience.
You've been with a grown man, doing exactly this for years now..
Jenni wrote:
A grown man does not feel nor should he necessarily have to account for his whereabouts every moment...but that is what makes us feel safe isn't it? Knowing. That is what gives us our sense of control.
Trust is difficult to rebuild when our physical and psychological memory rears up every time something that for anyone else, ...except our addicted loved ones...would seem normal, reasonable behavior for an independent adult.
Mark IS NOT a grown man...he's 23
Having control because you refuse to turn it over or let it go,
has been part of the problem here to begin with...
Not checking in with mommy anymore, like mom may be used to,
is not abnormal nor unreasonable...it's part of growing up.
We should feel safe,
with who is left in control,
not have a false *sense* of control,
because we are controlling the situation.
With all due respect you two....and no offense to you Lucy
23 and deep in a crack addiction,
is a little too hard, not to mention, way too late,
to be learning about accountability and responsibility now.
It's kinda like the words from Scripture...
Behold, I send you out as sheep among the wolves.
Hello....he's 23 for G0D sake
If he wasn't smoking crack,
would coming home at 4, 5 in the morning, be a problem?
From her previous posts...I think not.
She shouldn't be expecting anyone
at home and in bed sleeping, but, her husband.
If it wasn't a problem before, it shouldn't be now.
Would not being home for dinner be a problem?
Maybe...but, that's the problem
She shouldn't be expecting anyone
at the dinner table but, her husband.
She needed to drop the reigns long ago
While I'm all in favor and have long stated,
Mark needs to be allowed the consequences of his addiction,
I also can relate to Mark, knowing myself first hand,
having to learn accountability and responsibility the hard way
because your parent(s) didn't stop babying you....s-cks
Peace,
Lynn
_________________ If you can not stand for something, you will fall for everything
I agree with your point that Mark is a young adult and I can relate to what you are saying as I am the Mother of a 22 year old son, I know that I would be giving it my best shot and the rules may change. That is for Lucy to consider and I can not fault her for her consideration if that is what she chooses.
My situation is different, I definately agree with that statement. Darell is definately a man, complete with his own opinions of how and where he wants to be and enough time behind him to know the causes and effects of his actions.
What I meant by meant the criteria, is can Mark, step up to the plate where Lucy does not end up carry him, once he is home and free to use as he pleases and still have the comforts of home when his funds are depleated the should be helping him in the area of being responsible... like I said, I can only offer my thoughts as my situaation is most certainly different from Lucy and Marks.
I do understand and will continue to wish , hope and pray for the best in Lucy and Mark's situation....
It is clear that Lucy and Mark have a close relationship, so I know how important it can be to keep that base of respect and love forthcoming at this time.
Wishing for the best for all concerned ....
Michelle
_________________ Positives create better results then Negatives
If he wasn't smoking crack,
would coming home at 4, 5 in the morning, be a problem?
From her previous posts...I think not.
She shouldn't be expecting anyone
at home and in bed sleeping, but, her husband.
If it wasn't a problem before, it shouldn't be now.
Would not being home for dinner be a problem?
Maybe...but, that's the problem
She shouldn't be expecting anyone
at the dinner table but, her husband.
_______
This was my point.
Like it or not ...even at 23...Mark is grown....and is responsible for himself...does that mean he has everything figured out...does he have the knowledge and experience that men 15 or 20 years older than he have?....Certainly not....but this is Mark's time to begin figuring things out.
It isn't reasonable to expect that he would want or feel he needed to share his every move and every moment with us...addict...or not.
I think back to when I was that age...maybe a little younger...and my mother would want to know where I was all the time. It drove me bananas. I'm sure my not telling her....or not thinking it was any of her business drove her nuts....was it OK then...no....but if for example...she knew that I had been in active addiction....those nights away from home or coming home late...or even if I was in early recovery...and was not communicating about my where abouts....it would add a whole different dimension to the situation.
Before I knew about my b/f's addiction, did I worry if I didn't hear from him for a day or so...a little...not too much...certainly not to the extent that I did after I found out. The difference...my perception before was that he was engaged in healthy activities that would not be harmful to him or me....after I found out....I knew he was most likely engaged in activities that had life threatening consequences for him....and brought a lot of uncertainty to me.
It has to do with the trust....that needs to be rebuilt for the growth of everyone.
Now I understand that letting my mother know where I was, would have eased her worries about where I was and what I was doing. As loved ones having gone through this experience...when our loved ones are not where they are expected to be...when they are expected to be there (whether it is fair to expect them or not)....internally somewhere in there...we are wondering....we are hoping they are not out there using. It is our biggest fear. Whether that is right or wrong, fair or not fair...that's how it is. That doesn't mean we act on the fear we feel. It doesn't mean we say anything to our loved one..or even acknowledge it outside ourselves...it is part of the process we go through and it is not easy. Coming to terms with it and learning to trust again is part of our recovery.
I'm encouraged that Mark is spending some time with the family... I hope he will continue to make time spent in that way a priority. I believe Mark will get through this Lucy, and so will you. I keep saying you will know what to do....I guess that comes from my experience and observation of how you have handled things so far. Even when we are not sure about what to do ...we do the best we can in the moment we have to do it...and we learn from what we try.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family, Lucy.
I am a fortunate person to have so much friendship sent my way.
I've been neglectful of the forum lately, still not feeling that I quite have it in me to offer up anything useful to anyone, but I still am a frequent visitor, sometimes just choosing not to sign in and therefore not feel obligated to post.
I cannot stay away from the help that is offered to me here, nor can I stay away from this wonderful group of people who have become so important to me.
I'd like to take a minute to address some of the recent posts.
Bill-Your honesty and your experiences are of more help to me then you will ever realize. I cannot know how Mark thinks or feels, I can only guess, and what you offered up to me in your post pretty much confirmed what I've thought. I worry that he will feel depressed, disappointed, ashamed, and that this will continue to fuel his use. I pretty much am just trying to treat him as normal as possible.
Bill I hope that you continue to be brutally honest about all of this, because I am sure there are others who read your posts and learn so much from it as I know I do.
I thank you for the encouragement you so kindly give, and I hope that you are right in your feelings that Mark will get past this. And you are so right, I only see a doomsday answer here. I know that my brother's addiction, and continued addiction, is what I worry Mark is headed for. But Mark is Mark, and NOT my brother, and I need to remember that.
Thanks for always being here for me, Bill, and always available to answer my questions, and always willing and ready to share your life with me.
You are a one of a kind guy, and I hope that things with you and kiwi are continuing to progress well.
Michelle-Always so good to hear from you, I hope your health is improving.
You have such a great heart, and such a warm glow and it is good to see you shining here again.
I know that our sons are of similar ages, and I know that you can relate to how we feel about our kids, no matter their age. The worry and concern is always there, especially at these ages when they are living their own lives and are less involved or in need of our mothering.
To answer your question, Mark canNOT meet his criteria while he is actively using. He has not worked in probably about a month other then a few days helping my father out at his business. He does not seem to care that he sleeps in his car. He does not seem to care if he has clean clothes or if he's eaten. He has quickly gone further and further downhill and further into his addiction.
And you are right, if he is here I would worry when he doesn't show up.
I have so much more to say, but he has just called to ask to come over and talk and I need to go open the door.
I am sorry, I haven't finished.
Talk to you all soon.
Lucy
I pretty much am just trying to treat him as normal as possible.
that line strikes me. i'm not sure why. perhaps because there was no-one close by during my active use to treat me normally. this leaves me wondering how i would have reacted. whatever, i'm quite glad that i didn't have someone near like that. reading everything i have, i think it would have only made it harder on me, knowing that i was causing another such grief. i commend you on your efforts however, it must take a certain courage to treat a loved one normally when there is nothing normal about what they are doing to themselves.
Quote:
I only see a doomsday answer here. I know that my brother's addiction, and continued addiction, is what I worry Mark is headed for.
this is understandable. before coming here, your only experience with an addicted family member is one which involves a very long history of which is still ongoing, and then also the daily regime of active users who come into your care, due to your profession as a nurse. it would be easy to feel negative and without hope. but here, you have the opportunity to witness the progress made by actual addicts who you have befriended and you see firsthand the haphazard, hit and miss strategy that we often circumnavigate in our quest for sobriety. still, some of us don't make it, some of us do. when it remains difficult for you to see the light at the end of the tunnel, because of your proximity to the problem which is actively ongoing, some of us, such as myself, do our best to hold you up when you are too tired to do so yourself. when that light only flickers for you, i can only throw more fuel on it, making it burn brighter, because i know, i walked through that dead zone and came out on the other side; alive, with a better appreciation of what it means to be clean.
you are right. mark is not your brother. perhaps this site has given you certain tools to deal with mark that may not have been available in the same way for your brother. it sounds like mark is coming around some. this must be a tremendous joy for both you and hubby. mark may slip again. but i do believe that as stated previously that relapses are a crucial part of the recovery process and that it gets easier each time to stay away from the drug, permanently.
i quess i did substitute one high for another by turning to speed when i quit smoking crack. but i haven't used speed in six days now. i knew that when i was going to quit speed, that i would succeed. this, i am certain, a result of the succession of relapses. mark will pull through, lucy. no doubt about it. he has you for a mom, and you have us for your support.
Quote:
I hope that things with you and kiwi are continuing to progress well.
our friendship; basis of all good things that might yet come, remains intact and continues to grow. she owns my heart.
_________________ I can embrace myself, hold my own hand, love me - but, I can't gaze into my own eyes and feel my own soul lift me up.
I have been keeping up with your threads and i too feel bad that i haven't been able to be here for people much because i am wrapped up with my own issues. I really feel for you. I could imagine what you are going through. Lucy you are such a strong person, your strenght amazes me and you are such a wonderful and caring mom to mark, he is so lucky tp have you and believe he knows that even if he might not show it sometimes. You and your family are in my thoughts and keep being strong and don't give up. I am sure mark knows that he family is there when he is ready to fight for his life back. Please take care of yourself
Nikki-I understand where you are right now,sometimes we just need to take some time to deal with our own *censored sh_t before being able to take on more. Thanks for taking the time to post me, I do appreciate it. I think of you and your boys often as well. How is everyone in your home doing? More importantly how are you doing? Have you talked with your family since they've come back from Australia?
And don't worry, I am staying strong, and although there are so many times I would just love to pretend like crack never existed I don't. Its unfortunate that its infected our lives, but I continue to learn more everyday about it, and see how many others in the world are affected by it, and I know there is some reason we are dealing with.
Diane-I wish I knew if letting him move home would be better or not. Right now we've let him stay here a few times when he's not used. When he is here and he's sober he is his old self again. He has looked somewhat better. He stopped in my office the other day & I weighed him and was relieved to see he's about the same weight as normal. He's also been able to get a job and will start that this week. Its not his work as a mechanic but a labor job and he feels that physical exertion & exhaustion will help keep his mind straight. Maybe he's working his way thru this, I'm not sure.
Jenni-What can I say to you that I haven't said before? You are my cross country soul sister. You instinctively seem to know how I feel and what I need to hear. I can only hope that I offer you a sliver of support and encouragement that you so readily give to me.
And then there's Lynn, who I am never sure how to take. Lynn you have been a huge source of help to me, offering me up the experiences you've dealt with. You know I enjoy the stories you share and think you have excellent writing skills and ability. But sometimes I think you want to try to get a reaction out of me, and maybe this is part of what you think I need, I am not sure.
Accountability and responsibility are not new things for Mark, these things have been instilled in him since he was young. This is a guy who has always worked, when he was younger on the weekends for my dad, and at the legal working age of 15 had a job ALL the time. He held on to his money. He is an incredibly hard worker and took care of what he needed to. These are behaviors that he learned from us by example.
Mark has chosen to give up his responsibilities and let crack lead him now. I don't think for a moment he's forgotten these things.
You mention something about him coming home at 4 in the morning or whatever, and no this was not a problem for us as Mark became an adult. Mark was working and going to school full time, he completed 3 years of post high school education, he had his own car, his own money, his g/f, his own life. He was continuing to live with us as an adult because we like him here and he liked living here. He was still in the beginning stages of adulthood, and in the expensive housing costs it just made more sense for him to stay here until the next chapter of adulthood began for him.
Mark didn't use crack until he was 21. So this was at a time when we had relinquished parental controls on him. He had responsibilities at home that he took care of. He came and went as he pleased. No big deal for us.
Do I feel differently about him coming home at 4 am after he's been out smoking crack all night? Absofuckinglutely! I do not want to be his safe haven for him to come home to after he is doing something that he knows I am totally against. So no that would not be acceptable.
I know that Mark's recovery is his own, and it continues to be hard to know that I can't beat it for him, but this is something I am aware of. All of the efforts on my part to help him with his recovery will continue. I will continue to help him try to find his way back despite knowing that the only one who can help him is himself. This does not mean I am babying him or taking the responsibility from him, it means that I love him, I support him, I encourage him, I educate him, and I am a constant in his life, all the things that a mother should be.
You say I should not make it too hard for him to use, but I would never make it easy for him, never.
Lynn I know that you don't agree with some of the ways that I've intervened in helping Mark, and we share different views on recovery methods, and I do like to hear your opinions and your input on these issues. Keep 'um coming.
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