welcome to the forum. sorry to hear that your friend is addicted, but also happy to know that he has a friend who is concerned enough to seek information in a means to help him overcome his situation.
Quote:
How long have you been friends with,
this person whom you consider to be,
one of your very best friends??
I mean,
how close are you to/with this friend of yours?
Not that it matters but,
did you know your friend was doing coke,
but, didn't realize they were addicted...
or, you just didn't know at all....period.
I find it hard to understand,
being so close with someone and not noticing
something isn't right anymore or has changed,
try not let the above quoted dissuade you from persuing your efforts to help your friend. personally i find it offensive that someone should come here seeking help and emmediately be questioned about their intuitive skills.
possibly the questions are warranted but delivered without tact, and if they leave you feeling suddenly under the microscope; suspect to intentions, remember first the reason you came here.
it does not matter, this early on, nor may matter later, the precice nature of your relationship or how long you've been involved with this person. whether you've known them for one day, five or even ten years is irrelevant to the fact that you wish to help.
as allison has pointed out above the effects of cocaine can be both subtle and deceptive. until such time that either physical evidence or admission is present, the vast majority of people lack any insight whatsoever. i believe there is enough testimony here to indicate that partners of addicts, tho perhaps aware of subtle changes, lacked the insight to know that cocaine addiction resided in there lives. why then, a person on this forum, particularly one who proffesses such vast understanding of the drug and the people who use it, would seem to imply that someone does not have their faculties together, is beyond me.
the drug is manipuative and sly. no one person, without being introduced to the facts first are capable of recognizing the drugs presence and need not be persuaded that the onus lies on their shoulders to weed out the addiction in another person.
so, k, welcome again and do try and follow through on the links that were offered above. there are vast amounts of information available here that might offer help for both you and your friend, however, keep in mind that you now come first. you have to understand, that now that you are aware of drugs presence, you are also subject to the laws governing cocaine usage and possession, but also the intent of the drug to use you as well. if the drug cannot effectively recruit you as a user, then it's next option is to recruit you as an enabler.
lastly, i would also add that as you take on the burden of responsibilty (which you should not) that there is huge support from both users and the partners of users available here to both help and encourage you to make the right decisions. don't be afraid to ask questions.
and most importantly do not allow yourself, or anyone else for that matter, introduce the notion that you have somehow condoned your friends addiction. what you didn't know before couldn't hurt you before, what you learn from here forward will be your responsibilty to utilize in a manner that protects you both.
regards, bill
_________________ If you can not stand for something, you will fall for everything
(excuse me Vegancat, I didn't get this in fast enough)
It is one thing for me to bring a different view to what Lynn wrote, even to question her meaning. BUT this constant sniping and personal attacks help no one. It only causes condisension in the ranks. I don't think we should censor what we think or say, but if something is personal take it there - Stop airing personal laundry in public. Lynn, I love your openness and honesty and Flaggin, you have a lot of insite to bring here, but I swear if I have to watch you two go at it again I'm done!
We are all here for one purpose - to help each other. How is what you two do helpful to anyone, including yourselves?
With all my love and respect to both of you,
Alison
How long have you been friends with,
this person whom you consider to be,
one of your very best friends??
I mean,
how close are you to/with this friend of yours?
Not that it matters but,
did you know your friend was doing coke,
but, didn't realize they were addicted...
or, you just didn't know at all....period.
I find it hard to understand,
being so close with someone and not noticing
something isn't right anymore or has changed,
flagginthedraggin wrote:
try not let the above quoted dissuade you from persuing your efforts to help your friend.
I DO, find it hard to understand,
for K, for Alison, for Jenni, for Nikki...for WHOEVER.
I made a statement, acknowledging the fact...
I FIND THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND...so what
It's no different from others
who find it hard to understand...
the lengths their loved ones will go to, to use.
You read it, with the sarcasm you assumed was there.
I find alot of things hard to understand,
like what your freaking problem is.
flagginthedraggin wrote:
try not let the above quoted dissuade you from persuing your efforts to help your friend.
I believe the rest of my post,
that WASN'T quoted, could speak for itself....
Obviously, your friend has told you,
he's been trying to quit for 3 years,
and not knowing any better, take that at face value,
but, the truth of the matter is, if anything
he's been wanting to quit, not trying to quit,
which is why he can't quit,
because he's not willing to quit.
You've come to a great place for info, support & advice,
Be sure to check out the links others have left for you,
Inform yourself so you can avoid/prevent,
becoming a victim to addictive behaviour.
He's lucky to have a friend that cares,
Best of luck
Peace,
Lynn
flagginthedraggin wrote:
personally i find it offensive that someone should come here seeking help and emmediately be questioned about their intuitive skills.
I WASN'T questioning her intuitive skills,
THAT'S HOW YOU READ IT....
I WAS JUST ASKING HER QUESTIONS ABOUT THEIR FRIENDSHIP
flagginthedraggin wrote:
possibly the questions are warranted but delivered without tact, and if they leave you feeling suddenly under the microscope; suspect to intentions, remember first the reason you came here.
YOU TOOK MY WORDS AND BLATANTLY
PRESENTED THEM,ON MY BEHALF, WITHOUT TACT.
i find that highly offensive,
trying to make something out of nothing
flagginthedraggin wrote:
it does not matter,this early on, nor may matter later, the precice nature of your relationship or how long you've been involved with this person. whether you've known them for one day, five or even ten years is irrelevant to the fact that you wish to help.
Don't you know how to read?
keepitreal wrote:
Not that it matters but,
did you know your friend was doing coke,
but, didn't realize they were addicted...
or, you just didn't know at all....period.
flagginthedraggin wrote:
as allison has pointed out above the effects of cocaine can be both subtle and deceptive. until such time that either physical evidence or admission is present, the vast majority of people lack any insight whatsoever.
That INCLUDES me as well,
since I've not been on that side of the fence
But Hey, Thanks for sharing,
Your insight is so invaluable
I'll be waiting for your next post...
A bunch of nothing constructed for something.
You take care now..ya hear
_________________ If you can not stand for something, you will fall for everything
It is one thing for me to bring a different view to what Lynn wrote, even to question her meaning. BUT this constant sniping and personal attacks help no one. It only causes condisension in the ranks. I don't think we should censor what we think or say, but if something is personal take it there - Stop airing personal laundry in public. Lynn, I love your openness and honesty and Flaggin, you have a lot of insite to bring here, but I swear if I have to watch you two go at it again I'm done!
We are all here for one purpose - to help each other. How is what you two do helpful to anyone, including yourselves?
_________________ If you can not stand for something, you will fall for everything
How long have you been friends with,
this person whom you consider to be,
one of your very best friends??
I mean,
how close are you to/with this friend of yours?
Not that it matters but,
did you know your friend was doing coke,
but, didn't realize they were addicted...
or, you just didn't know at all....period.
I find it hard to understand,
being so close with someone and not noticing
something isn't right anymore or has changed,
I just have to say that it seems that at least 3 of us on the forum have found this comment to be a statement which appears to be unnecessary. What good does it do to ask this type of question? I also found it to be belittling and offensive to imply that K or anyone else in her situation, my situation, Alison's situation should have known better.
Fact of the matter is most of us were not blessed with expert knowledge on the behavior of crack addicts, until we put enough clues together to go searching for an answer or like K, had her friend admit what was going on. Why would people who have never been involved with Cocaine or Crack have any knowledge of it or it's subtleties unless they have become crack addicts or work in the substance abuse treatment field.
This kind of comment may have been intended to point out that there have been clues, but the way in which it was presented is offensive, degrading...and will make people seeking help, think twice about coming here so that they can feel belittled and abused.
I agree that this should stop...and be taken outside....however, I think that when a pattern of this type of comment continually is posted on the forum... that it is perfecly fine for people who find it offensive to state their opinion. That being said, I hope that this thread can now return to the original reason that it was posted. K is asking for HELP!!! So, let's help her feel supported.
I find it hard to understand,
being so close with someone and not noticing
something isn't right anymore or has changed,
Jenni wrote:
I just have to say that it seems that at least 3 of us on the forum have found
this comment to be a statement which appears to be unnecessary.
Jenni wrote:
it is very hard for us to understand what our loved ones are experiencing
and why they do the things they do...or don't do.
I also find it to be belittling and offensive then,
to imply that something I can't understand,
is an unnecessary statement....
yet, our roles are reversed...
you make the same statement, from a different standpoint,
and that makes your failure to understand & state it,
.....necessary.
Well, if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black
Jenni wrote:
What good does it do to ask this type of question?
EXCUSE ME...
I'm not allowed to ask questions?
You tell me, What good does it do,
to ask some of the questions you do?
Jenni wrote:
I also found it to be belittling and offensive to imply that K or anyone else in her situation, my situation, Alison's situation should have known better.
Jenni wrote:
Since addiction involves
secrecy and lying and unreliability
Not anymore offensive to conclude,
your boyfriend doesn't need to and shouldn't lie to you,
even though, by your statement above,
you know that's part of the addictive nature.
I'm too tired right now,
to point out everything I'd like to...
but, you can be sure I will by tomorrows end.
I'm going back to posting the way I want,
and if yous don't like it,
find it offensive, belittling, unnecessary...
Oh well, too bad
You have a nice night yourself now..ya hear
_________________ If you can not stand for something, you will fall for everything
It is one thing for me to bring a different view to what Lynn wrote, even to question her meaning. BUT this constant sniping and personal attacks help no one.
i am not questioning lynn's meaning. not only are her questions clear, but the very way she executes the wording
Quote:
I'm wondering....
Quote:
I mean,
Quote:
Not that it matters but,
makes it even more clear that the intention is to make this person question there ability to read people and situations. there's just no need for it. it's obvious that there has been enough replies to her post that indicate an unfavorable view of the way she speaks to people.
allison says:
I don't think we should censor what we think or say,
i think lynn should censor what she thinks and says on this forum. this isn't the first time this sort of exchange has appeared here but you can be sure that when it does, lynn is usually party to it.
Quote:
Stop airing personal laundry in public.
i've got nothing personal against lynn, i simply find it offensive the way she continues to address people even tho she herself understands how uncomfortable it makes others feel. it's quite obvious, as indicated by the choice of emoticons she chooses to use, that she is by nature a rude person. there is an undeniable bitterness about her which only she can know the true reasons for.[quote]
Flaggin, you have a lot of insite to bring here, but I swear if I have to watch you two go at it again I'm done!
you know allison, i don't have much insight to offer these days because if it involves a difference of opinion from lynn, then it is best left unsaid.
lynn adds:
But Hey, Thanks for sharing,
Your insight is so invaluable
see, that statement in itself might seem ok, but when it's followed by the pile of crap that it is, then that statement takes on another meaning altogether. me, i find a lot of value in what lynn has to offer, i just dont respect her lack of respect for other people. and nor am i afraid to tell her so. and nor do i need to embellish my disapproval with rude comments, swear words, or lame emoticons.
so, where is k. well it could very well be that she just has been up to other things. i'm sure that the exchange between lynn and i, is not something to scare the poor girl away. if anything it might show k that some of here have a gentler hand to lend.
oye vay!
_________________ I can embrace myself, hold my own hand, love me - but, I can't gaze into my own eyes and feel my own soul lift me up.
How long have you been friends with,
this person whom you consider to be,
one of your very best friends??
I mean,
how close are you to/with this friend of yours?
Not that it matters but,
did you know your friend was doing coke,
but, didn't realize they were addicted...
or, you just didn't know at all....period.
I find it hard to understand,
being so close with someone and not noticing
something isn't right anymore or has changed,
Obviously, your friend has told you,
he's been trying to quit for 3 years,
and not knowing any better, take that at face value,
but, the truth of the matter is, if anything
he's been wanting to quit, not trying to quit,
which is why he can't quit,
because he's not willing to quit.
You've come to a great place for info, support & advice,
Be sure to check out the links others have left for you,
Inform yourself so you can avoid/prevent,
becoming a victim to addictive behaviour.
He's lucky to have a friend that cares,
Best of luck
Peace,
Lynn
Quote:
Jenni wrote:
I just have to say that it seems that at least 3 of us on the forum have found
this comment to be a statement which appears to be unnecessary.
Jenni wrote:
it is very hard for us to understand what our loved ones are experiencing
and why they do the things they do...or don't do.
I also find it to be belittling and offensive then,
to imply that something I can't understand,
is an unnecessary statement....
yet, our roles are reversed...
you make the same statement, from a different standpoint,
and that makes your failure to understand & state it,
.....necessary.
Well, if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black
Quote:
EXCUSE ME...
I'm not allowed to ask questions?
You tell me, What good does it do,
to ask some of the questions you do?
Jenni wrote:
I also found it to be belittling and offensive to imply that K or anyone else in her situation, my situation, Alison's situation should have known better.
Jenni wrote:
Since addiction involves
secrecy and lying and unreliability
Not anymore offensive to conclude,
your boyfriend doesn't need to and shouldn't lie to you,
even though, by your statement above,
you know that's part of the addictive nature.
Lynn,
I am very sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying. I in no way meant to imply that you do not have a right to ask questions or that your thoughts or questions are unnecessary. You certainly do have as much right as anyone else to ask questions. I guess what I didn't understand why these questions were being asked. And all I can say is that coming from my perspective...even though the questions and their sequence was not directed toward me...I felt belittled. am also sorry that I did not comment on the rest of your post, which was indeed supportive.
I understand that you are coming at it from the opposite perspective as I am. OK. So I don't understand some of the things addicts do. And it is hard for you to understand how a loved one, being so close with someone have not noticed something isn't right anymore or has changed. So maybe we should try to have some empathy for one another and be in each other's shoes, before we respond.
I will be happy to discuss this with you further in PMs, but I don't think it is necessary for either one of us to continue to discuss it on the forum, as it is getting off track from providing K with the support she has sought.
Thanks for letting me know where you were coming from.Look forward to discussing this further in PMs if you choose to do so.
K, sorry for the diversion. This really is a good place to get support.
I agree that it could be difficult for some to understand and simply stating that it is not understood is a personal statement. I could be one to fall into that catagory had I not fallen into the same unknowing that K did with my loved one. I DO understand because I have been in her shoes.
Today I can resite the changes in my loved one, that I CAN now see take place, but then it REALLY DOES not matter because I can not change it, however you still may find that statement written here.
In reading the post that has become so questionable, I have reread it muliple times and even after attention was drawn to a section of that post,
I still have to question the idea of sarcasm...
If left on it's own merit, I think the closing statements on the post left a feeling of welcoming and support.
Once again when writing in a situation where we can not see one's facial expression, or the tone of someones words, we may personally take a comment in a direction other then intended. I am not here to play judge and jury, but only state my opinion. When in doubt, I tend to give in to the benefit of doubt...... my personal preference ....
I intentionally did not post because I was in hopes that the situation would resolve itself in an adult like manner and not on the open forum that would snowball to this proportion. EX: Lynn's reasoning for asking the question, may have been answered with K's comments and a further reply from Lynn. We all know Lynn;s style for getting to the points she wishes to make and we have seen in the past that she can hit the mark fairly close, or not too far off.
Although our situations may involve the same topic, which would be drug addiction, our situations and reasons for being here may be vastly different. It is my hope that we are all here to learn and grow from our experiences in the best light that we possibly can.... and when possible to provided support and encouragement for those seeking information and support...
When a statement begins with, " I DO NOT UNDERSTAND" , or I find it hard to understand, void of name calling, I would personally not challenge that persons statement, but address it in a way that can bring understanding.
The continued snipping here has only created a drawn attention to a conflict that should of died and been buried shortly after it occured. We all have a scroll button at our disposal should we choose to scroll back and read it again.
When a member arrives on this site there is no doubt in my mind that they have enough conflict that has them feeling unsettled and emotionally exhausted, the very last thing they need when they open a window to the forums here is more conflict.
Now we can not only wonder where K went, but hope that she will return to feel the guidance and support that she came here to find.
I personally will refrain from posting on this thread until I see that K has returned....
This is not a garden party. We, in different circumstances would probably never cross paths or spend time in search of answers that seem elusive.
If a message gets thru and someone is able to save their life or protect the life of a child etc... then i am certainly willing to accept all manner of delivery...
I respect all opinions and admire the consistency with which our core members read and respond, without you there is no forum, this is a living breathing dynamic.
If there is ever a question of intent, then please, i offer my services, cut and paste the possible offending phrase and insert "what is your major malfunction numbnuts" before it and send to me...addiction or freedom?
i am willing to try.
Golden Rule of helping others is not to be personally involved! At the moment you become involved you are not capable to be objective.
Helping others should be fun and give you positive emotions. We are not modeled after TV talk show, when hostess trying to uncover personal baggage and then, make it public in pursue of the rating. No pier pressure!
If you disagree with somebody, pm this person or simply ignore the comment.
I don't want to became a Cerberus, but to protect others I might apply the moderation power.
In the holiday spirit, peace, love and positive attitude, Gene.
_________________ Your Admin, Gene. -=People who ask our advice almost never take it. Yet we should never refuse to give it, upon request, for it often helps us to see our own way more clearly. =-
Wow! Thank you both. I just wrote my sad Christmas Eve post and popped down here. I hadn't read much of this. I fell off my chair.
I think that one thing some of us here have are very strong opinions and a lot of verbage with with to voice them. That should not be lost.
As I said before, this sight would be much less without both of you. I personally love a good verbal sparring.
Lynn, you have so much to say, and ask very good, poiniant questions - you have made me think a lot over the last few months, but sometimes you do come across somewhat accusatory. I know what you mean, but if someone is new it can be intimidating.
Bill, you are great at jumping to someone's defense, but usually at Lynn - then between the both of you it gets personal - yes, it does.
I don't know why I felt so inclined to jump into the middle of this. I may not be the most vocal person here, but when I have something to say I say it.
I don't think either of you should stop - sniping that is, just not in the middle of someone's post. The dynamic is very interesting. If I stuck my nose in where it does not belong, I apologize.
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