I can't really say that I know too much about this topic. But I have been talking to people who are more deeply knowledgable about the bible than I. I have found some of the discussions quite interesting.
So often on these forums, crack or cocaine are referred to as the devil, the beast, the experience being quite hellish.
Even some of the recovery literature which is not considered to be religious uses terms like the beast...and there is the dichotamous relationship of the addictive voice (the beast) vs. the voice that would lead a person to recovery (who is that? the real person? Lord?)
Like I said, I'm finding it intersting. I've been involved in discussions about the battle for souls. Demons who will pull an addict and their loved ones if they can into the depths of he|l. The choice is ours, so I'm told. Lord's force is more subtle most of the time...encouraging, and providing opportunity to make different choices...choices that would lead a person to live in HIS way...A spiritual battle that is beyond our control but for the choices we make. I don't really know what I wanted to say about this....but I hear the parallels in peoples stories...and like I said...it is interesting. So, if anyone would like to join in a discussion, I would be happy to engage.
I am an atheist, however I can answer this question strictly based on Cristian theology. Keep in mind, that Evil, Diablo and etc is a creation of G0D, and G0D's servant. Start reading bible. I will continue when I have a bit more time.
_________________ Your Admin, Gene. -=People who ask our advice almost never take it. Yet we should never refuse to give it, upon request, for it often helps us to see our own way more clearly. =-
i have heard it said,
"it takes a tremendous amount of faith to be an atheist."
Mainly, I choose not to believe, that my personal believes or what kind of mantra or prayer I have to repeat will guarantee my reservation in full service upscale resort called heaven.
_________________ Your Admin, Gene. -=People who ask our advice almost never take it. Yet we should never refuse to give it, upon request, for it often helps us to see our own way more clearly. =-
I am an atheist, however I can answer this question strictly based on Cristian theology. Keep in mind, that Evil, Diablo and etc is a creation of G0D, and G0D's servant. Start reading bible. I will continue when I have a bit more time.
I'm waiting...
What do you think has been drawing me here,
when I'm too bummed out to even want to be here.
_________________ If you can not stand for something, you will fall for everything
I'm waiting...
What do you think has been drawing me here,
when I'm too bummed out to even want to be here.
I want to believe not just that . I will need more time to put it here in laconic, but easy understandable form.
_________________ Your Admin, Gene. -=People who ask our advice almost never take it. Yet we should never refuse to give it, upon request, for it often helps us to see our own way more clearly. =-
Well the way I view it is if Lord isn't real and the possibility of heaven is not true what do I have to loose? If it is the truth I will have gained something out of the universe a place called heaven so what have I gained if my faith forgives my sins. I will be like the thief on the cross who in his sins was forgiven and in the verse it was said so he would go to heaven.
It isn't hard to become atheist the main teaching in public schools after all iss evolution. To say a monkey evolved in to a man is just not fact until I actually see on evolving today. That would be a site for sore eyes but how did the process stop?
The big bang hmmm that one sounds good too but it does take on faith to believe these things I agree flagging so in sorts maybe it too is a type of religion. Why did Darwin confess he made a mistake before dying? Was he afraid at that last moment that he would have to meet his maker?
As I mention before, I will try to explain from theological point of view. You should understand, the religion as a believe is different than religion as an institute. When religion became an institute, it will represent different tractates of the bible.
So, when G0D created a mankind he gave man enough knowledge to live happy, light-hearted live. However, one of the G0D servants took form of serpent and decided to give extra knowledge to Eva, and gave Eva the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil - knowledge of reproduction without G0D's help. It was the first sin; because of this sin Adam and Eva were exiled from the Garden of Eden.
From now on, man are born in sin and have to prove to G0D that he/she is well worth to be given eternity. It was a postulate before Jesus time. Jesus said that both ideas of sinning before birth and the punishment for the parents' sins were wrong.
Angels are also G0D's servant. They supposed to help us to make right decisions.
Falling angels nowadays are identified with Lucifer and Satan. They are punished by G0D and they are spending their time on Earth until the Judgment Day will come and they will be sent to he|l.
People are very good in making parallel tendencies. So everything good came from G0D and everything bad come from Satan.
For a long time medical community didn't have tools to observed physical changes associated with psychiatric illnesses. Therefore, church used to play big part in "treatment" of psychiatric conditions.
Idea of possession of Evil (Demonism, Exorcism)
Symptoms of Possession:
• Turning away from everything holy and related to G0D: Holy Communion, the Cross, the Bible, holy water, icons, prosphoras, incense, prayer, and so forth. Moreover, the possessed feels the presence of a holy object even when it is hidden from view; it irritates him, makes him sick, and even brings him to a state of violent behavior.
• Change of voice: This symptom is not observed in cases of normal psychological disorders. Because speech is controlled by the brain, over which the demons do not have complete control, but only over the vocal chords, the sound of the words that come out of the mouth of the possessed is unnatural.
• Clairvoyance: Demons do not know the future, just as the angels don't know it: it is known only to the Lord G0D. However, demons know the past and see much more of the present than normal people. Being spirits, they are able to nearly instantly communicate to the clairvoyant that which is happening far away, even in another part of the world, so that to others present it might seem as if the clairvoyant person knows the future. When the clairvoyant predicts the future, the predictions are always only guesses. The demons, having a vast experience of life and knowing much more about people, sometimes are able to successfully predict what will happen. Of course they are often mistaken. Besides that, sometimes their predictions are fulfilled not because they were ordained to happen but because the person himself, inspired by something regarding his future, begins unconsciously to strive toward it and in this way facilitates the realization of the prediction.
• Instant healing: A psychiatrist might need many years to heal a patient suffering from a mental disorder. Liberation from a demon happens in a moment, after which all the signs of possession disappear and the person becomes normal.
• Instant transmigration: There is a danger that an evil spirit inhabiting someone is able to transmigrate instantly into either the person who is trying to expel him or into members of the family of the possessed. This symptom is distinct from the danger of contagion to which doctors and psychiatrists are exposed. It is known that people who are continually involved with the mentally ill can themselves begin to display different psychological abnormalities. In this situation the patient himself does not benefit from any reduction of that which "infects" his doctor. But in instances of demonic transmigration, the person who had been possessed is completely liberated from possession at the same time that another person just as suddenly falls under the action of this spirit.
Please, understand that possession is directed to the body and devil can not have possessed soul.
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From medical point of view: Aggressive Delirium can have all the symptoms listed earlier.
The main purpose of religion is to give you moral values. I don't have problems if you decided to have your moral value in level with your religious believes. However do not relay on G0D to solve your personal problems. Do not substitute everything in your life to religious believes and tractates.
If you apply critical thinking when you are reading bible you may find that bible is written as a very well balanced "Legal Policy". Do not expect everything from G0D at the same moment expect everything from G0D. G0D works in mysterious ways, never put your G0D to a test.
_________________ Your Admin, Gene. -=People who ask our advice almost never take it. Yet we should never refuse to give it, upon request, for it often helps us to see our own way more clearly. =-
Well the way I view it is if Lord isn't real and the possibility of heaven is not true what do I have to loose? If it is the truth I will have gained something out of the universe a place called heaven so what have I gained if my faith forgives my sins. I will be like the thief on the cross who in his sins was forgiven and in the verse it was said so he would go to heaven.
It isn't hard to become atheist the main teaching in public schools after all iss evolution. To say a monkey evolved in to a man is just not fact until I actually see on evolving today. That would be a site for sore eyes but how did the process stop?
The big bang hmmm that one sounds good too but it does take on faith to believe these things I agree flagging so in sorts maybe it too is a type of religion. Why did Darwin confess he made a mistake before dying? Was he afraid at that last moment that he would have to meet his maker?
Steave it is not about Darwin's Evolution. As a matter of fact this theory has more holes beside missing link. If you ask any serious scientist he/she will apply that Darwin thery is about inter species competition.
And stories about last days of Darwin life, let say are not correct.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/d ... tml#recant
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I got impression that you are interested in history. I suggest you to read about "Dark Ages" and why church burn Giordano Bruno and intimidated Galileo. Life story of Joan of Arc also is an interesting example. She was burn after trial for heresy. At the same time she is a saint of the Roman Catholic Church.
_________________ Your Admin, Gene. -=People who ask our advice almost never take it. Yet we should never refuse to give it, upon request, for it often helps us to see our own way more clearly. =-
That would be a site for sore eyes but how did the process stop?
maby it stopped due to aclimatization.
who know's. but was it possible at all? caterpillar to butterfly, tadpole to frog. it's possible.
A caterpillar does not evolve into a butterfly,
nor, does a tadpole evolve into a frog.
The process of a caterpillar transforming into a butterfly,
or, a tadpole transforming into a frog, is Metamorphosis.
Adult butterflies and frogs, lay their own eggs,
A caterpillar is the larval stage of butterflies and moths,
caterpillars emerge from the eggs laid by the adult butterfly,
The butterfly larva..or caterpillar, is the first phase of a butterfly's life cycle.
Caterpillars don't reproduce, neither do tadpoles
I understood what you were getting at but,
caterpillars and butterflies, are both insects
and tadpoles and frogs, are both amphibians..
The theory of, the Evolution of man is that,
humans evolved from an animal...
Two different species,...
If man evolved from apes, how is it that
apes were able to continue their species?
My views on Evolution and the Big Bang theory,
being absolutely absurd, has nothing to do with
believing in G0D's Word, The Bible, which says different...
It has to do with common sense, and being able to
conclude from possibilities & probabilities.
Order does not come from chaos,
animals do not turn into humans...
Now, if you'll all excuse me,
I'd like to finish squeezing this ripe tomato,
so I can have a fresh glass of orange juice
However do not relay on G0D to solve your personal problems.
I thought that it was incumbent upon man to put forth the effort (the work) to solve his own problems, but let his faith be the guide that provides the direction. Faith includes critical thought and man's ability to do things for himself. I don't think what the bible says is don't work at things, don't use your brain, the tools you have been given...and G0D will solve all your problems. G0D solves problems when you put forth the effort and ask for help. If you don't want help...that is your choice, and problems may be more difficult to solve.
Does critical thought include faith? If I have evaluated a certain problem and choose to solve it some particular way....It should work...the problem should be solved if my critical thinking process was correct. Doesn't it take some faith to believe that this is true?
You should understand, the religion as a believe is different than religion as an institute. When religion became an institute, it will represent different tractates of the bible.
This is what is wrong with organized religion. Or..denominational institutions. They do not focus on all of the Word, rather, man has taken out certain passages and decided that they are what is more important than other sections. More chaos has been created in the world because of passages taken out of the context of the whole and misrepresented to create man's means to man's end.
If the overall message of the bible is these are moral guidelines to live by and loving one another, treating another the way we want to be treated, don't harm others or engage in behavior that would cause others to feel hurt or harm them...that sounds like a pretty good message to me. Does it still take into account things like mental illness, etc. that have organic origins. Yes. People who experience mental illness, mental retardation, etc. are no different than anyone else, and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, love and kindness...not to be looked upon as demons, or possessed by demons etc.
My understanding of demons is that they attempt to influence a persons behavior, to tempt a person to behave in a way that causes harm to themselves or others. Walking among us perhaps. I choose not to believe that people are demons....or are possessed by demons. I believe all people are good, and some are lost. While lost it is easy to follow a path of destruction. Shoot it is fun...for a while. How does a person become a monster? How does a person do thing for example like J. Dahmer or T. Bundy?
That's one I have yet to figure out. An organic component? I hope so to explain such behavior. I'm rambling...but these were some thoughts...and a Bill wrote in my thread.
A thought
Is better than
No thought
That's my thought
-FlaggintheD
I don't want to get too involved in this discussion as I don't know the answers or how I feel about it all. Just wanted to know if anyone knew where this phrase originated from -
Lord helps those who help themselves.
Is this from the Bible? Anyway, seems to wrap up what is being said here.
If faith is so critical to make the right choice? Rather your education, experience, your persistence plays key factors in solving the problem.
_________________ Your Admin, Gene. -=People who ask our advice almost never take it. Yet we should never refuse to give it, upon request, for it often helps us to see our own way more clearly. =-
Now, if you'll all excuse me,
I'd like to finish squeezing this ripe tomato,
so I can have a fresh glass of orange juice
very well crafted line.
Anyway, i had intended on posting something i just recalled from the pbs special last year on the brain. It spoke of the brain filling in the blanks without have all the data., based on passed scenarios etc... the example given is driving, daydreaming a bit without really seeing the road and suddenly you are at mile marker 8. You were awake, and can't really recall the details between form m.marker 6... I think our crack brain may do the same thing when triggered with a thought, the brain will jump to m.m 8 based on the data without allowing us to work thru the process the way a normal person would of consequential behavior, trying to go back and insert consequences is alway hollow and ineffective to me, as if the brain has moved on and has no need for the information, as it would have no use for memory recall on mile marker 7.
My house has no roof and i am worried about the drapes matching, this is what i ultimately feel about the question posed before...
My earliest recollection of inconsolable fear was suppose to be a source of comfort, joy. Sunday school - "great news you have eternal life" this one early statement created for me an anxiety that if not buried by something would leave nothing standing in it's wake. for me early sports fantasies, throwing the winning touchdown etc. helped push down these thoughts in the quiet of the night, later replaced by something stronger, sex, thoughts, and so on to the present.
"Well, you die and resurrect and then you will forever and ever and ever". the concept of eternity more frightening than the concept of wormbait, to a, whatever age i was 8-10? I learned to grow to become uneasy at either scenario, i think everything else, this addiction included is meaningless, when in those rare moments of clarity, (usually just waking back to conciousness), everything is openly exposesed and properly proportioned.
The fear and realization that we are ultimately alone on this is the genesis
of my condition, that i am fairly certain.
I have often said there are times you use because you do not have a committed answer to the question why not? Until now I always beat myself up over why answers; my family, health, relationship were sometimes not good enough to quell the beast..I can repeat your belief, any belief as mine, but in those moments, are they really yours? I go back to gut, is there a chosen group, are we connected, what the he|l are we doing here? What is the meaning of all this?
well, if this neglected fear unchecked, and ignorance is bliss, used up, and all other explanations not taking root, then no wonder any of the answers given to the question why not?, will sometimes not satisfy when the driving force is unimaginable fear and not indescrible pleasure.
You were awake, and can't really recall the details between form m.marker 6...
This is how our brain worked, movie is a consequences of screens or shots, however we see it in motion rather than every shot alone.
You also pick up the question of motivation preference. The desision to chose one over another one is question of personal preferences (believes). One motive or another more important one, is how you prefer to put them in order, what's more important to you.
_________________ Your Admin, Gene. -=People who ask our advice almost never take it. Yet we should never refuse to give it, upon re
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. I will need more time to put it here in laconic, but easy understandable form.
