I am not in any case underestimating your desire to control yourself. Don't get me wrong on this one. However I am trying to "push" you for more. If I am not very gentle, let me know.
You are very right to call it transitional period, and word transitional means that something new will follow after it. Remember that Lynn several times mentioned that learning good habits is also habit forming. You should use this transitional period to form new habits, that will make yourself, and people around you happy.
Ability to feel pleasure is the strongest and the weakest link for us. It is one of the greatest mechanism that can be used for control. After all we are in pursuit for pleasure. However, there are numbers of different ways how we can achieve happiness. If somebody will tell you that there s only one way to achieve happiness, this person or this concept will try:
A. Control You for different purposes.
B. Knowingly or Unknowingly misleading you.
Let me know if you have any questions, I will continue latter.
_________________ Your Admin, Gene. -=People who ask our advice almost never take it. Yet we should never refuse to give it, upon request, for it often helps us to see our own way more clearly. =-
Gene - I appreciate the push. You have a point about pleasure,
Until they start putting bear traps in diaphrams or ratpoison in crack, they will never be less pleasurable.
perhaps i have been looking at it backwards, instead of trying to diminsh the pleasure of the godmother and godfather of all pleasures, i should be looking to replace them, not one for one, as that is impossible, but thru combinations that might add up, and that is certainly on me to do.. I guess part of my frustration is that i am not affected by things that used to give me pleasure in a safe productive way i.e. athletics etc... i know depression plays a role, but i need to know that there are things out there, I just need to find them.
I will agree with Lynn about learning new habits and the positive habit forming that follows. I guess when it comes down to it, I am probably a little fearful and without faith that i can connect with something that will fulfill me to the point of getting free sex and crack.
I think that this is the problem with this addiction, since it is pleasure based, the uses for are for pleasurea not to maintain a level so the body does not withdrawl.
It is that much more damnable, creates that much more shame, so the thought of adding more pleasureable activities to the agenda, regardless of whether they are positve or not, seems so self indulgent and undeserving that it is hard to initate them i.e. travel, vacations etc....
You should use this transitional period to form new habits, that will make yourself, and people around you happy.
I am not sure that it is fair to compare it to yourself as you have Bill.
You Wrote:
Quote:
I am probably a little fearful and without faith that i can connect with something that will fulfill me to the point of getting free sex and crack.
I am not sure the idea is to exactly match the fulfillment of what is consider bad habit and keep the lines so stringently parallel as to the point of your pleasure that you may find impossible to match, but to embrace a habit that is considered good to replace the bad.
Consider that a reward is a reward, so what should be the difference if you replace using crack with a vacation, as far as I can see there is nothing that you should feel guilty about, because you are working to take something out of your life that does not belong and replace it with something that does. Consider as you begin and continue to abstain and finding a positive form of pleasure of even the most simplistic events can well become pleasurable and lead to more pleasurable experiences with time.
I have been reading the post from Bill (flaggin) and I see that his eyes are opening to a world that because of his usage he steered away from secluding himself to mostly the pleasures he received from his addiction. He is now experiencing more pleasure in the simple things that he has neglected enjoying for so long. Building a whole new relationsship with family and enjoying his love of creating art, peotry, and at times laughter throughout this site I am sure there is more. As the bad begins to fade out, you are more open to other avenues that can grow to further episodes of pleasure and satisfaction and your possibilities for new growth can become endless.
Consider not looking at it as " an eye for eye", but a beginning to more healthful habits replacing the undesirable habits that can create so much hardship and self defeat.
These are just my thoughts after reading Gene's advise and your response.... just my complicated female mind "working overtime."
Wishing you Strength and Peace as always,
and lots of love,
Michelle
Last edited by pause4poetry on Mar 19, 2007 - 06:06 PM; edited 1 time in total
I am probably a little fearful and without faith that i can connect with something that will fulfill me to the point of getting free sex and crack.
Freudian slip - meant to say getting free from sex.
Michelle m-hen thank you I know it is not reasonable to obtain a parallel, and it will have to be a combo platter of positive activities to come close to drowning out the song, pull.
I have substitubed extreme stimulation for passion for so many f-ing years. i guess i just fear that i will not have avenue, time, resources or will to regain it, but point taken, i will not try to frame it in such impossible proportions.
I guess when it comes down to it, I am probably a little fearful and without faith that i can connect with something that will fulfill me to the point of getting free sex and crack.
I think that this is the problem with this addiction, since it is pleasure based, the uses for are for pleasurea not to maintain a level so the body does not withdrawl.
Is it Bill?
Is the drug still pleasurable?
Is the free sex, that is meaningless, fulfilling?
Or maybe, is that how you rational what you fear?
A worthwhile relationship,
where making love replaces meaningless sex.
Someone you can grow old with and desire,
as if they were crack itself.
The past hurts can never be in the past,
if you do not leave them in the past.
You are to smart not to know,
and simply to blinded to see.
I Love You,
Lynn
_________________ If you can not stand for something, you will fall for everything
Thank you for not inserting the "the way the life the truth" j.c. reference, I know this is not easy to do when you are on the team. I know, my sister died in a religous community opting for prayer instead of seeking medical treatment until too late.....but remember, this opportunity lost for you might fall into the category of peter denying christ three times before the censored %==> crows.
Sorry Pumpkin....not applicable.
I professed to you, long ago, the truth I can attest to,
I can not make you believe nor can I sway you.
Our prayers do not override G0D's will,
sometimes we just need to pray for acceptance.
For whatever circumstances surrounded your sister, I am truly sorry.
I have proclaimed my faith in G0D and Christ here many times,
by doing so, I give Glory to G0D, the Father of Christ,
and His Son, Jesus Christ, who died so we could live...
I, myself, at times doubt, but, do not deny,
and truth be told, faith does not *place you on the team*,
it is living by faith that places one in His family.
Faith alone does not grant anyone salvation,
it is living by the faith one professes.
Many people profess Him but, do not follow Him.
I, am one of them.
"Enter by the narrow gate;
for wide is the gate and broad is the way
that leads to destruction, and there are many who go by it.
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way
which leads to life, and there are few who find it."
~~Matthew 7:13,14~~
"Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter the kingdom of Heaven,
but, he who does the will of My Father in Heaven."
~~Matthew 7:21~~
bill40 wrote:
keepitreal wrote:
Secondly, you shouldn't need a baby sitter to meet your goals.
No wonder help is hard to ask for. Lynn, I f-ing hate to ask for help and my addict does not like to be held accountable, thus my accountability thread, when you live on shifting sands, lofty life goals seem out of reach, but weekly, daily ones, yes sometimes with a little proding, seem to be within reach.
what's the point of coming to a site if you cannot admit your weaknesses and ask for support? Something i never f-ing do on the outside.
You are confusing my response Bill.
This is what you quoted, was responding to..
bill40 wrote:
I have tried to institute an accountablilty string here; having us state goals, tasks for others to assist in helping remind us to follow thru
We look to others for support, because we need others
as we struggle to follow through.
We look to others for help as we are helping ourselves.
If you are not seeking help outside this site...why?
You are not here but during work hrs. ...correct?
Even then it is not with certainty or consistency.
I can not recall you ever posting,
you're about to use...or entertaining the thought...
or you're upset and afraid where it will lead you...
Help from anyone is useless,
if people are not able to help you,
when you need it the most.
Reinforcement...not reminders.
This is your sobriety, not someone else's job
to remind you that you've chosen sobriety.
I Love You,
Lynn
_________________ If you can not stand for something, you will fall for everything
I am just lost, the things i desire most are the furthest
away from me, it has been almost 8 years since i have had a
relationship. You are correct i have not put the hurt in the past.
I wear it around my neck refusing to be that vulnerable again, rationalizing my isolation by wanting to avoid inflicting pain rather than admitting my fear of being found by it, again.
a dog that has been in a small kennel for an extended period of time still paces the same small circle when he is released, it takes a long time to realize that the borders are only real in your mind.
Now, I need to know where you stand, how well you aware of your addiction and what common results addiction can bring.
Not Aware---Somehow Aware---Aware---Very Aware---Preoccupied
Could be between two grades.
_________________ Your Admin, Gene. -=People who ask our advice almost never take it. Yet we should never refuse to give it, upon request, for it often helps us to see our own way more clearly. =-
I know, my sister died in a religous community opting for prayer instead of seeking medical treatment until too late.....but remember, this opportunity lost for you might fall into the category of peter denying christ three times before the censored %==> crows.
All hospitals in US provide "pastoral care". I assume this religious community was a cult. Fanaticism is dangerous in any sphere: religion, politics, medicine, science and etc.
My regrets and sympathy.
So Bill...
are you saying that you are wanting of a true relationship, but are afraid to get into a positions where you are most vunerable and able to hurt, or be hurt?
If so, is this a product of your addiction, or something that you feel using, and your activities surrounding using compensate for keeping you from having to tread familiar waters in a relationship?
Perhaps it has nothing to do with your addiction, but simply that you have not effectly accepted and faced past hurts, and addiction is the food that numbs your soul, excusing you to not to deal with, once again the whole picture, and what is uncomfortable and fobidden in your eyes, your heart and your mind?
I feels the theory here is in taking one day at at time, not tyring to exend your yourself beyond what is reasonable to get past a day without using, and begin with the same goal in mind to make it through the moments and the next day to follow.
Consider that keeping a mental picture in your mind, the whole picture as to where you would like for this to end, may better help you work on all areas of the things that are adversely effecting you....
You say,
Quote:
I am just lost, the things i desire most are the furthest away from me, it has been almost 8 years since i have had a
relationship
This leads me to feel that you DO DESIRE a relationship, but you feel it is out of reach for you.
It doesn't have to be the furthest.... Yes, many things must come in thier own time, but when past pains keep us from living our present moments we must begin to push ourselves to work on accepting what is in the past, moving past the pain,taking it out and finally facing what is preventing you the future you truly want to embrace.
Once again we are dealing with "the whole picure",
...it may not be easy, but consider venturing beyond the walls that have been built from past hardships, one brick and a time, but keep working and moving through each obstacle. Sure one day at a time, but several sections each having there own merit that creates the whole picture.
Addicion issues, relationship issues, and last but not least forgiving past hurts, taking out the pains of old, and dealing with them, one by one.... as you begin to move closer to what you profess to desire ....
Lynn Wrote:
Quote:
We look to others for help as we are helping ourselves.
If you are not seeking help outside this site...why?
I will let you answer Lynn's question before I go further ....
Just my mind sending you the ramblings in my head... if there is anything that you can use taking consideration of my perspective please do, knowing that I am so ecstaticly happy that you are back and posting. If not, keep searching ... don't give up, stay strong and keep working what has helped thus far, adding to it as you go along....
Strength and Peace to you ...
and much Love,
Michelle
_________________ Positives create better results then Negatives
Last edited by pause4poetry on Mar 20, 2007 - 08:04 PM; edited 2 times in total
To answer your question, I would say that I am aware, but my actions run contrary. If someone was aware that they had cancer you would think that they would drop everything to attend to the erradication of it.
Honestly, based on our last exchange concerning pleasure, I go back and forth between thinking of it as a disease and viewing it as a moral failing with truth lying somewhere between.
I mean come on, crack and sex it doesn't get more sodam and gomorah than that.
I seem unwilling to surrender to the disease model completely, to say, that i am powerless even with the track record... I do feel as Bill, Lynn and others have expressed that i will someday just trancend it's pull and decide it is no longer part of my being.. that is my firmer belief, but as I sit and wallow after another failure, i am left questioning my motives, purpose and resolve.. I feel that after all that use that my physical makeup, brain chemistry,cell memory what have you, has changed to meet the drug.
i know ultimately the tools will assist only to cover or as you mentioned, maintain this lifestyle if my drive and motivation are not there to propel me to get rid of this.
i do appreciate the time people have taken to respond to me and my life.
i feel a little unworthy of their and your investment, like a bad stock or timeshare, because i have not had more than two weeks clean since i left treatment 8 years ago, i mean everything aside, i must still want to have this part of my life. i dont know...
I am just lost, the things i desire most are the furthest
away from me, it has been almost 8 years since i have had a
relationship. You are correct i have not put the hurt in the past.
I wear it around my neck refusing to be that vulnerable again, rationalizing my isolation by wanting to avoid inflicting pain rather than admitting my fear of being found by it, again.
a dog that has been in a small kennel for an extended period of time still paces the same small circle when he is released, it takes a long time to realize that the borders are only real in your mind.
thanks again.
Pumpkin, I was starting to reply to this
right after you posted it,but, a bit of unnerving news
I had gotten from my mother, had me flaming.
Are you lost?? Or, are you hiding??
Granted, it is not my place to say a lot of things I do,
but, I tend to think you want to be *lost*, if you will.
You know, I had tried posting the situation behind this news,
but, I was way too worked up to even know where to begin...
I mean, I can easily post the current situation at hand,
but, the funny thing is, that while what's flaming me
and what's going on with you, are two worlds apart,
the underlying motives for each, were bred by fear.
"We have nothing to fear but, fear itself"...so true
Tell me Bill...How can I help you?
What can I do to start helping you?
I Love You,
Lynn
_________________ If you can not stand for something, you will fall for everything
Bill-
No feelings of unworthiness allowed here!
I know I've told you before but I would like to stress to you again that you have been an endless source of knowledge of the crack world to me. You unselfishly share with me things that I have no other access to except from someone who has been there.
You support the things that I do.
You encourage me to have hope.
And you have taken the time to help and encourage many here.
So no way do you get to try out for the unworthiness award.
You do know your disease well. I know many cancer patients who chose to ignore the good advice of doctors and the scary world of chemo and radiation and chose to instead remain in denial of their disease. These people chose to lose years off their life by delaying or never going for treatment. And your situation is similar.
You know the consequences of not treating your disease.
You know the rewards of treating it.
Make the right choice.
i do appreciate the time people have taken to respond to me and my life.
i feel a little unworthy of their and your investment, like a bad stock or timeshare,
You are worth it to me
Pumpkin...don't let the crack do the thinking
bill40 wrote:
because i have not had more than two weeks clean since i left treatment 8 years ago, i mean everything aside, i must still want to have this part of my life. i dont know...
This is good Bill...This is what needs to be soul searched...
not the tools, not the methods
I Love You,
Lynn
_________________ If you can not stand for something, you will fall for everything
Whether you realize it or not, you were one of the people instrumental in me achieving several months now of being clean. I find it difficult to believe taking your observations to heart, which in turn helped me, cannot do the same for yourself.
Part of me believes this is as straight-forward as realizing, while clean for at least 4-5 days, is the pain of continuing along the current path more, or less, painful than the alternative?
Humans, most living organisms, choose to avoid pain rather than submit to it. I got to the point where I realized I was headed for a he|| of a lot more pain (losing family, house, car, etc.) than what I was choosing to avoid via the pipe. I'm sure you've tried things from almost every angle, but forget a moment about benefits or one choice over another, and look at it in terms of the amount of pain relative to one choice over another.
Though I can't say for certain what helped me ultimately, I believe this was a key component to staying straight for a respectable amount of time... Will it keep me from relapsing? Only time will tell.
Take care, man. I'm in your corner, as always.
John
p.s., you were the first to get the "Who is John Galt?" reference, which is another reason why I feel a strong connection to you and hope to be here for you in whatever way I can...
You would be surprised Bill but the pleasure that makes you addict, can makes you a free man. Look around, normal life could be as much appealing as something that makes your brain feel pleasure, but never brings real satisfaction. You are telling that old activity didn't produce the same result as it used to be. Have you ever try to reread book that you read long time ago? Have you found that it could as interesting as it used to be, despite you already know the topic. Why? Because now you applied knowledge that you gathered during this years and discover something new in this old book. It's life, and it is appealing.
When you live your life alone you can allow yourself slip, but when you live your life for somebody, who depends on on you, or you depend on him/her that makes your life worthy and you will start to protect yourself or this person. For some people is idea of Loving G0D, for others life around: family, children, work, idea and etc. Monks on purpose exclude pleasure of habitual life, but they still be very happy people. They made their life worth something! You've read John Galt response, did it bring some satisfaction? You did help somebody! Treatment will give you the window, after that it is your will to make your life worth something. I enjoy your writing, have you thought about writing a book, journal?
_________________ Your Admin, Gene. -=People who ask our advice almost never take it. Yet we should never refuse to give it, upon request, for it often helps us to see our own way more clearly. =-
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